Exploring Outer Space with Judges Lydia and Roxanne!
Interview by Lynne Marie
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I’m over-the-moon excited to feature two of our long-time Rate Your Story Judges!
Lydia Lukidis dances and soars with Dancing Through Space: Dr. Mae Jemison Soars to New Heights (4/4/2024) and Up, Up HIGH: The Secret Poetry of Earth's Atmosphere (1/1/2025) and Roxanne Troup reaches for the stars with Reaching for the Stars: A Mission to Space (8/27/24), three picture books that are out of this world! Both of these talented authors have not only reached into space, but conquered both fiction and non-fiction!
I’m so happy to feature this big bang of an interview with you both and inspire our readers to start off the new year with their eyes to the skies!
Lynne Marie: While we’re all beginning a new year, with a blank slate in front of us, I would love to hear how your blank pages for these stories transformed. What was your first line/paragraph, and how did you come to it?
Lydia Lukidis: DTS - Mae’s curiosity was as wide as the sky. She spent her days
questioning, exploring and learning. She absolutely loved…SCIENCE! Mae could not sit still. She spent her days jumping, flipping, rolling. She absolutely loved…DANCE!
The start of the book took 8 years to manifest. Whheww… It took several years to craft the proper hook; the intersection of dance and science. I was sort of lost before I created that hook. And once I did, the ball started rolling, and I began to understand that the text would best be displayed as a dual narrative that features Mae’s curiosity and passion for science on one page, and her love for dance on the other (until they merged).
UUH - Up, up high. Higher than the tallest trees, higher than the biggest buildings, floats an invisible world – earth’s atmosphere.
This first line was easier to construct because I had already written DEEP, DEEP DOWN and I understood the structure by then. I knew the first line would start with “up, up high,” and then I fiddled with the rest of it for a few months.
Roxanne Troup: For years Nasa planned an exciting new mission. Just a few more minutes until ignition. On this lunar adventure, our four person crew will assemble and test… and scout the moon too.
Believe it or not, the original stanza for this rhyming picture book was: What will we find lightyears away beyond the expanse where our planets play?
This line came to me just as I was drifting off to sleep. It was the line that switched my story from prose nonfiction to a rhyming fictional narrative. The story felt dull and incomplete in prose format, but I couldn’t figure out what was missing. When this line came to me, everything changed and the story fell into place.
As I originally wrote the story, I imagined an unnamed girl astronaut thinking about her upcoming mission and wondering about all she’d see on her trip to the moon. After edits with my publisher, that stanza was moved to the midpoint of the story after our astronaut launches into space. The publisher felt this change would make the story more linear and help young readers keep track of the narrative.
Lynne Marie: Why space? Tell us what fuels your passion for outer space and why?
Lydia Lukidis: Ever since I was very young, I was always drawn to the stars. I think many children (and adults) are, because of the sheer mystery, magic, and grandeur of it all. As humans, we’re so minuscule in comparison to the vastness of the universe, which is always expanding. I read the book Cosmos by Carl Sagan many years ago, because I was fascinated.
The same goes with the Earth’s atmosphere, which of course extends into space. We take our atmosphere for granted but it protects us and gives us life.
Roxanne Troup: I’ve always enjoyed looking at the stars to find different constellations, so when I learned about NASA’s new Artemis program in 2019, I thought it would be fun to celebrate all we’ve learned about space while commemorating a woman landing on the moon for the first time. But coming up with the right angle for this story was hard. The mission had yet to happen so I couldn’t write about it as fact. I played around with different structures and eventually landed upon the aspirational journey of a young girl dreaming about all she would encounter beyond the moon–made possible by every female astronaut who came before her, especially those taking part in the Artemis mission.
Lynne Marie: Lydia’s books are considered non-fiction, and Roxanne’s fiction. Yet, both authors conducted extensive research on the topics (to the surprise of some fiction writers). Please share and qualify your research for these books.
Lydia Lukidis: Research always begins in the library where I read a ton of books. In the beginning, I don’t necessarily know what I’m looking for so I just read and read. When I find something interesting, I jot it down. I also use primary sources, reputable websites, and interviews to learn more. At some point, a hook may form; a specific lens through which to view and present the content. Sometimes, a hook doesn’t materialize, in which case I shelf the book. Nonfiction requires a lot of research but fiction and informational fiction can as well. If you present information, in whatever way, it needs to be accurate.
Roxanne Troup: In addition to picture books, I write a lot of nonfiction for the education market which means I am no stranger to research. The key, I think, is choosing the right research to include. Picture books have a very limited scope; too much info and/or random, unfocused facts can derail your story. Your job, as a writer, is to determine the depth of research needed to support your theme, and present that information in a way that provides readers with something beyond what they can find on their own with an Internet search. This often means delving into the connectivity of fact and highlighting its impact and emotional connection on readers.
I spent a lot of time on NASA’s website, space.com, and other news sites reporting on space to give myself a solid overview of where we’ve been and what we’re currently discovering about outer space. I then used that info as a springboard to draft my manuscript. From there, if necessary (and with nonfiction it is always necessary), I go back and search out more specific facts that will support the narrative (highlight the kid-centric angle) I’m trying to tell.
Lynne Marie: Starting with the titles and moving forward, both books utilize familiar idioms and poetic devices. Please tell us about your process for integrating wonderful, playful language into your books.
Lydia Lukidis: I like rhyme and that’s how I started writing poetry when I was six. But as I got older, I started to prefer lyrical language that doesn’t necessarily rhyme. I think that’s my true voice as an author. When I first started writing DEEP, DEEP DOWN, I played around with the voice. But after watching countless videos of the Mariana Trench, I realized the trench itself is a poem. So beautiful, mysterious, and slow moving, almost otherworldly. At that point, I knew lyrical language would serve the text well.
When I began UP, UP HIGH, I knew it would be a companion book so it would follow a similar structure, tone, and voice. That works well for the Earth’s atmosphere, which is also mesmerizing and mysterious.
Roxanne Troup: Choosing to write a story in rhyme is a bit like putting together a puzzle. When I put together puzzles (whether physical or metaphorical) I always start with the edge pieces. This boundary keeps my work productive. It reminds me that I am creating something tangible and finite–making it easier to wrap my brain around the chaos of 500+ tiny pieces of random shapes and colors. With rhyming stories, this boundary is the overarching story I’m trying to tell. It’s the plot points and thematic take-away of my story that keeps me focused and helps me choose the right 500+ words from the plethora of those available in the English language. (That, and my word bank. Creating a themed word bank of rhyming words, interesting phrases, and scientific terminology helps narrow down my word choice even further.)
Then I move on to the easily identifiable sections of a puzzle–be it a streak of light that I can follow throughout the image or the focal point of a large red truck. These sections provide structure for my puzzle and give me something to build off of. In writing, this structure comes in the form of meter and rhyme scheme. Elements that don’t fit the meter or that break the rhyme scheme without cause can’t be used. Bit by bit I write and revise until each piece is fit together and the full image of the puzzle is revealed.
Just keep in mind that a rhyming picture book is a delicate balance of science and art. On the one hand you need the consistency that a solid meter provides; on the other, you don’t want to stick so closely to your chosen meter that your work becomes predictable and boring. The key is to take the time to train your ear (listen to music, participate in reader’s theatre, read lots of well-written rhyming stories aloud, take poetry classes, etc.) and know when to break the “rules” for the sake of the art.
Lynne Marie: Tell us a little bit about the journey of your book(s). When was the idea conceived? How long was the path to publication? From final submission to publication? How many places did you submit?
Lydia Lukidis: Actually, it was my agent Miranda Paul who first suggested the idea to me. DEEP, DEEP DOWN was so well received and even won the Crystal Kite Award for the North American division (gah!!) and Miranda suggested there may be a companion book that would work well. It would explore our beautiful planet, but in the opposite direction. I knew right away it was a solid idea. I started my research and about a year later, wrote the first drafts.
Roxanne Troup: I wrote the first draft for REACHING FOR THE STARS in 2019, shortly after learning about NASA’s new Artemis program. However, it took me a while to find the right structure for it. I began submitting the rhyming manuscript in 2020 and sold the story to Schiffer Kids in 2021, but it took over 6 months to find an illustrator. Shortly after final artwork was complete, the editor who acquired the story left the company and Amanda and I wondered if our story would be forgotten. It was finally reassigned in late 2023, but our new editor asked for sweeping changes to the book’s storyline. Thanks to some creative brainstorming and lovely author pals, we were able to course-correct and create a book all of us could be proud of. REACHING FOR THE STARS released in August of 2024.
Lynne Marie: What do you perceive as your biggest obstacles in getting these books published? Why?
Lydia Lukidis:
For me, the challenge is always in getting trade publishers interested rather than educational ones. I had been working in the educational world for many years and have written tons of work-for-hire books. But I was clear; I wanted to make the jump to trade nonfiction. A few editors did remark that the book read too academic, so I’m still trying to perfect that balance. Capstone, in retrospect, was the perfect publisher. Both DEEP, DEEP DOWN and UP, UP HIGH are trade books, but Capstone also has many school and library connections so the books end up there, too.
Roxanne Troup: I’m unagented, so finding the right publisher and the right time can be a challenge. It means I essentially have two jobs–writing and researching the industry/making connections (which I recommend all authors do, even those who are agented). That can take a lot of time and brainpower, and in some cases, can limit who is available for me to submit to. However, there’s also a lot of freedom in it. I get constant personalized attention (I’m not sharing an agent with anyone) and can submit anytime I have a manuscript that fits an open call or editor wishlist (I'm not juggling multiple client manuscripts).
Lynne Marie: Discuss the choice to use the following in your manuscripts - art notes, side bars, backmatter. Explain how you felt any one of these choices would enhance your manuscript and make it more salable.
Lydia Lukidis: Ah! These are big topics in the world of kidlit. Trust me, I have spent plenty of time researching and obsessing over each one of these elements. Here’s what works for me:
Regarding art notes: I try to keep these at a minimum. I only include them if you can’t understand the narrative without them. However- when it comes to nonfiction, I’m very picky because I really want the illustrations to be accurate. So I admit I created 40-page reference guides for both books. (I did wonder if that was annoying or helpful for the illustrator!!) I gave direction, but of course, the publisher makes all the final decisions. And I’m lucky, because both books turned out well.
Regarding side bars: Well, I didn’t want to include them in DEEP, DEEP DOWN because I felt they interrupted the flow of the narrative. But it was up to my publisher, and they had a certain structure for their books they had to follow. In the end, I think it works well as layered text. You can read the narrative for the younger kids, and the older ones can read the sidebars.
Regarding backmatter: I love it! Some people will say you don’t need to write it when querying agents or editors, but I always do. I often write the backmatter first! I think it’s helpful to show the agent/editors what you find fascinating about the topic. But I always call it “suggested” backmatter and a lot of it often changes or gets cut. That’s just part of the process.
Roxanne Troup: As I said, it took me a while to find the right structure for this story. During that process I tried out each of those elements to see what fit best. Eventually, my sidebars morphed into backmatter, but my single art note remained. With the “after decades in space” couplet, the art note simply said [woman astronaut]. Since the Artemis program is all about returning to the moon with a woman and person of color, I felt it was important to dictate that in the story. But calling out that fact with words felt redundant (it would be shown in images) and didn’t exactly fit the rhyme scheme or meter. Since my story began as a “countdown” to NASA’s return to the moon, I wanted to call that out in an author’s note. I wanted a woman landing on the moon to be memorialized for kids and thought connecting my story to Artemis would help set it apart from others focused on space missions that had already taken place. But I knew that wasn’t enough for fact-hungry readers and teachers. So I created the glossary. I think all these things, as well as my idea to use real space photos in the illustration as a sort of “look-and-find” feature, were big selling points for Schiffer. They all helped set my book apart from others in the market and make it useful to teachers, museums, and space-related gift shops.
Lynne Marie: What takeaway do you hope a child will receive by reading your book? Explain.
Lydia Lukidis: For DANCING THROUGH SPACE: One of the main takeaways is that you can have several passions in life and don’t necessarily have to choose one over the other. Don’t limit yourself! Follow your heart even if it seems to lead in opposite directions. That’s what Mae did, she pursued both science and art. And in fact, art and science are connected.
For UP, UP HIGH: We often take the invisible atmosphere that surrounds us for granted. But I’d like to remind children that it not only protects us, but gives us life.
Roxanne Troup: I hope readers come away inspired and in-awe of our amazing world (which is one of the reasons I wanted to incorporate real photos of space into the narrative). I also hope little ones are encouraged to dream big and never give up on their dreams. But also to never be afraid of a little course-correction–as this book’s journey to publication is testimony to–after all, NASA does it all the time!
Lynne Marie: How much thought did you put into theme when writing this book? How did you facilitate your theme?
Lydia Lukidis:
The themes for my books are space and the deep sea, but these are such vast themes in themselves. There are so many books on these themes already! It’s crucial to really focus in and find your specific hook. That takes a lot of time, research, and thought, but eventually, it usually materializes. Sometimes it doesn’t, and then I end up shelving that book.
Roxanne Troup: For me, theme typically comes after I have a solid story draft. I very rarely set out to write a story about {insert theme}. Instead, I have a character, situation, or structure in mind to play with; or I might see something in the news and think That could be a picture book(!). I will think about that big idea for a while, and if it stays with me, will eventually sit down to write. The theme appears organically and is honed and amplified during the revision and publication process.
The big idea for REACHING FOR THE STARS was obviously space and celebrating a woman landing on the moon. But my theme of {dreaming big and working hard for a goal until it is realized} didn’t show up until I started writing the story in rhyme. I did my best to ensure that theme worked as a throughline in the story (and that none of my plot points introduced a different theme) through the words I chose and the facts I incorporated. But I, as an author, am only part of the picture book equation. The theme I began had to be recognized by an editor/publisher and enhanced by the illustrator’s art. The structure changes Schiffer made, along with Amanda Lenz’s artwork, amplified my story’s theme to create a book others can connect to and enjoy.
Lynne Marie: If you could share one tip for starting off the new year or a story on the right foot, what would it be?
Lydia Lukidis: Don’t be afraid to experiment. Sometimes, we work ourselves into a ‘box.’ We may think we’re only good at one thing, or we get used to structuring our stories in one way. But sometimes you need to challenge yourself to think outside the box. You may surprise yourself!.
Roxanne Troup: Make goals, but be flexible. Remember there is a lot about this industry we can’t control, so control what you can. Invest in yourself; do the work and learn the craft; try something new; give yourself room to play. Remember why you came to this industry and hold on to joy!
Lynne Marie: What are your writer resolutions for the new year?
Lydia Lukidis: I have three nonfiction books that are based on great ideas, but I’m so stuck!I have tried so many things to pound them into shape but I don’t want to give up yet. So I’d like to give them a bit more love. Also, I’ve been experimenting with writing middle grade novels in verse. It’s not easy but I love it!
Roxanne Troup: Write more stories! More stories = more opportunity. But, as a working writer, it can be hard to make the time to write for myself. My own stories aren’t a guaranteed paycheck, but it’s what I most love to do! So I’m constantly waging that battle for balance.
Lynne Marie: What is on the horizon for each of you?
Lydia Lukidis: I love writing nonfiction STEM. But I also like writing funny! I have a new early graphic novel series coming out in July 2025 and it’s super excited!! This is my first trade graphic novel (I also wrote one for Capstone for their educational line). My forthcoming GN is called Groucho the Grouchy Groundhog, which is a nod to Garfield, slapstick humor, and Seinfeld. All things I love!
Roxanne Troup: I have a lot of work-for-hire books coming out in 2025 (or being written for release in 2026)...and I’m always hopeful of selling that next story and seeing it become a book. In the meantime, I’m working hard to spread the word about my available picture books.
Thank you both for sharing your knowledge and experience with us! You are both truly stars in my book! Lynne Marie
Congratulations on your first-class books, Roxanne and Lydia! Good luck with the trade publishers, Lydia. And thank you both for explaining your processes. Thanks Lynne Marie for another engaging interview. 🙂